In this episode Julie and Andy continue to discuss the first chapter of Present Perfect by Pavel Somov and begin to use a more interactive question and answer format. They talk about where perfectionism in general comes from, why it is so easy to get caught in its trap and also what its pitfalls are. They also do a number of exercises that are in the book that really help Julie get down to the core issues of her perfectionism and help her look at it from the outside as an impartial observer. They discuss some technical details of perfectionism such as primary versus secondary perfectionism as well as the three types of perfectionistic hunger and which type Julie thinks she struggles with. They conclude the episode talking about how the metaphorical hunger of perfectionism can only be satisfied with the bread of acceptance and the practice of mindfulness. This episode provides an interesting look at the parallels of Julie’s OCD and her concurrent struggles with perfectionism.